THE RACIST INDIAN

Holier-than-thou that Indians are, there are times when a reality check is mandated.

One such moment is now. The Australian cricket team, steamrolling the home team on the field, has encountered racist abuse on the field, though not from the Indian players. Spectators in Vadodhara shouted at Andrew Symonds, the dynamic allrounder (who is an Aboriginal), calling him a ‘monkey’. Similar episodes had occurred in Pakistan as well. Clearly, the subcontinent is not presenting a decent face of itself.

symonds.jpg

Of course, the Indian authorities have denied this complaint. After all, this is India: how can there be racism in the land of Gandhi?

Indian men are well known to prefer to wed fair virgin brides, even if they are the exact opposite of the same. In fact, looking at the matrimonial ads, one could be forgiven for thinking that dark women are condemned to live in perpetual, wretched spinsterhood. In addition, Indians are instant friends or foes with their countrymen depending on whether they meet others of the same caste or sect.

For years, India has protested the racism of the apartheid regime in South Africa, and every individual racist attack in ‘white’ countries like Germany or the UK. In the meanwhile, the dark, lowly, and oppressed poor in India continued to be at the receiving end of organised racism. The upper castes kept driving the lower out, to trudge in the scorching sun to far-away segregated wells to fetch water. Harijan villages were burnt when these castes dared to come in contact with the upper caste people. Couples have traditionally been stripped, burnt, and killed for having violated the water-tight compartments of castes. None of this is merely historic. We see this every now and then, even today.

Indian society, by its history, is racist and divisive. The varnas and jatis of ancient Hindu society were social stratification systems that led to the growth of alternate religions like Islam, Buddhism and Jainism. These latter faiths were lacking in caste-based profiling, and attracted lower castes.

Of course, the Indian apologist will point out that the Government does not sanction this.

Unfortunately, this is far from the truth. Every official form profiles a citizen’s caste or religion. The state does not rise above the irrationality of collectivist profiling; it refines it, and tries to engineer society by increasing caste-based reservations in education and industry.

Till such time as the terms ‘caste’ or ‘religion’ are struck off official records, there is no hope for the racist Indian society to reform itself. If anything, the polarisation will keep getting sharper, with newer collectives being formed to take a bite off the reservation pie.

For a permanent solution, I can’t think of a better answer than Ayn Rand’s espousal of rational individualism, and the abandonment of collectivism.

42 responses to “THE RACIST INDIAN

  1. I agree. Like I read somewhere, so much resentment would not exist if only people had been given reservation on the basis of financial status rather than caste.

    Marc,
    Resentment is not the main issue. Individual rights is, but you won’t hear this term being uttered even by the anti-reservationists.

  2. Yes the caste system is very much present in villages and towns.
    I do not think that in cities there is that much of a division. At least when i was growing up in Bangalore and Kolkata, I would not see my friends group up in their own caste.
    I had both South Indian and North Indian friends and never felt that they were profiling me based on caste.

    Yeah, this is not uniform, Madhuri, as you know….

  3. I can’t argue with you as far as the skin tone bias in India, but it’s definitely not just a “Hindu thing”. My wife is a Bangladeshi Muslim and the same social pressures to keep your skin fair and to marry someone with fair skin is all over the place Bangladesh. (At least in Dhaka and surrounding areas.)

    Agreed, and welcome, Sluggabohn!

  4. #Till such time as the terms ‘caste’ or ‘religion’ are struck off official records, there is no hope for the racist Indian society to reform itself#
    The system that had been ingrained for generations cannot be easily undone by simply removing the terms from official records.
    Unless they are completely erased from the collective psyche,we cannot expect a drastic change in system(but this can happen only in Philip K Dick’s sci-fi novels).
    Be it a city or village the deep-seated resentment- is expressed in various degrees and hues.Software establishments,BPO’S serve good example,where Tamil tambis taking it out on Telugu gulties and they in turn taking it out on Malyali mallus..(no pun intended)
    Obladi oblada ..We Indians go on…

    Regards,

    Thanks, mate!

  5. … In fact, looking at the matrimonial ads, one could be forgiven for thinking that dark women are condemned to live in perpetual, wretched spinsterhood.

    Observed variations in skin color across lattitudes is explained by the balance between natural selection preferences for darker skin and sexual selection preferences for lighter skin. More on this here.

    There appears to be substantial evidence for universal sexual preference for lighter skin. Here is an interesting article from Kenya on this, and an excerpt:

    “The truth is that most guys prefer light skinned girls to darker ones whether we admit it or not. I don’t know what to attribute it to but most guys are naturally attracted to fair skinned girls,” said one man. And this from another male, “I must admit that I have a certain “thing” for yellow ladies just as all of us tend to prefer more beautiful ladies.” And finally, one gentleman had this to say, “No man hates black skin, but I personally prefer white women to black women.”

    TRF,
    I am not sure if all men prefer fairer women, across the globe…..
    Is that what you meant? The references don’t (AFAIK) say this.

  6. Australians can abuse anybody they have a right to do so, they can use vulgar words for not only the players but their mothers and sisters (I would like to trust Bhajji) but if Sree or Bhajji answers back the whole Australian media howls. Ian Chappel compares Sree to Shoaib Akhtar- Excuse me Mr Chappel we haven’t forgotten the underarm delivery bowled and directed by the Chappells. The Australian public abuses and ridicules teams from the subcontinent- it is acceptable, but why? The moment they have started getting it back Australians have started looking like angels; sorry Rambodoc it may sound like an emotional outburst but I don’t agree with you.

    As far our domestic racism is concerned I agree with you , it saddens me and I am ashamed of it.

    But, Prerna, we are talking of racist abuse, not barracking or sledging. Have the Aussies used racist taunts on our players?

  7. Rambodoc:

    This is a very interesting one.

    A friend of mine, who started his career in Schlumberger, was posted in Australia first. When he encountered some racist commentary disguising as humour, he laughed and told them that they need to know that Indians trump them at racism so they should not expect to get any kicks out of directing racist barbs his way. This was around 1985. The barbs ceased. So as far as Aussies are concerned, I think they cannot really complain.

    And yes they direct all sorts of racist and communal taunting at others.

    However I know the thrust of your post is introspective and not outwardly oriented blame-apportionment and I agree with you.

    However I disagree with Madhuri’s note.

    I have lived in 8 cities in India (around the 4 corners, barring Madras) and I did part of my schooling in a cantonment school where Army and Air force kids abounded, from all states and regions.

    Growing up is a different experience from living and working in a city as an adult. Bengalis are notorious for clubbing together. If you happen to the only non-Bong, you are left out mercilessly from their Bengali conversation (luckily, not I, because I learnt Bengali from Bihari cabbies and my Punjabi landlady!). The only reason I was taken into the fold was because 2 Calcutta friends introduced me to their gang when I went to work in Calcutta. Then my being a non-Bong did not matter except when they got very drunk in the adda…

    Then I moved to Bangalore where 3 months of living in Central Park, a hotel on Dickinson Road (not a park!) and going to look for a flat to rent with a significant budget, I learnt how awful it is to be a fair-skinned, north Indian girl in Bangalore! This was 1995. My colleagues who went with me on these negotiations were told –

    North Indians are untrustworthy;

    Who knows about these single girls coming to work all this way to our city, all whores and bitches coming to corrupt our boys (that I may be entirely not keen on guys who are invisible after dark did not cross their myopic and microscopic brains!)

    She must be a meat-eater and use onions (as it happens THAT was the only period in my life when I was a vegetarian…)

    So yes I agree Indians are very racist. We are so focused on difference that we forget what binds us. We find ways to discriminate – if religion, region, language, caste all fail, we will find gotra and some such obscure measure… Much as this means there is a rich tapestry in society, the impact on interpersonal relationships is just awful.

    Thanks for sharing your experiences, Shefaly!

  8. An idle curiosity:

    How is calling an aboriginal person ‘monkey’ racist but using the same moniker on Dubya not racist?

    Shefaly,
    There is a post in Amber’s blog that you could check out in this regard: very interesting!

  9. I repeat Shefaly’s question. I was talking to a 12 year old boy and he said people must have made those monkey calls because of his make up and hair and not because of his race and he could be right.

    Prerna,
    I agree with you and Shefaly that a lot of the terminologies and parameters of the topic of race is set by the minorities that have been resurgent after being deprived of their rights for centuries. Today, inverse racism maybe existent but is totally ignored. I agree here…. Do check out Amber’s post I linked above in Shefaly’s comment.

  10. I am not sure if all men prefer fairer women, across the globe….. Is that what you meant? The references don’t (AFAIK) say this.

    No. Personally, I like the Kajols more than the Aiswaryas. What I meant was that, not just the Indians, but also world over. Sorry, bad choice of word 😦

  11. I too disagree with Madhuri. Caste discrimination exists across geographies and economic strata.

    //we are talking of racist abuse, not barracking or sledging//
    This has got me thinking. Sledging of the form where the slip fielder tells the batsman “Dude, I’m sleeping with your wife tonight”, and racist abuse – why is racist abuse considered more evil than sledging that includes personal attacks? Why is racist abuse placed on a higher evil pedestal?

    TRF: I’m still not clear what you mean. I thought sexual preferences were of the kind “the grass is greener on the other side”. That’s why all the western babes are so into tanning their skin darker, while the Indian females are so into getting fairer.

    Mahendra,
    Racism is a form of collectivism that has oppressed millions of people over centuries. Sleeping with others’ wives, on the other hand, has only depressed some…. 🙂
    Now, seriously, racism and Nazism are raw scars in the human psyche, because the nightmarish visions of the recent past are too violent to permit a resurgence. It is as if mankind has decided ‘never again’ and thus even hints of racism or Nazism is enough to launch a huge ruckus.

  12. TRF is right. I have lived in Africa and generally over there fair skin is preferred for women at least.
    About racism, well Indians have a habit of being rude. I have personally heard people make fun of players who use excessive cream on their lips etc….I have people laugh and make rude comments about even white players.
    Not to say that indians are not racist where skin colour is concerned.

  13. I made the same mistake that Mahendra did once! Called TRF, RTF. Can you please correct it doc?
    Thanks.

  14. The varnas and jatis of ancient Hindu society were social stratification systems that led to the growth of alternate (sic) religions like Islam, Buddhism and Jainism. These latter faiths were lacking in caste-based profiling, and attracted lower castes.

    Caste system among Muslims. Edward Luce’s book (In Spite of the Gods) mentions how the caste system remains intact among the converts to Xtianity and Islam in India, and it’s not just the lower castes who convert.

    Thanks for the info, Amit. It is interesting that these people who converted to Islam still retained their bad Hindu habits and created caste systems in a supposedly egalitarian religion.

  15. Doc, it’s not just because of bad habits and it was not done by Hindu converts.

    Barani was known for his intensely casteist views, and regarded the Ashraf Muslims as racially superior to the Ajlaf Muslims.

    “In some parts of South Asia, the Muslims are divided as Ashrafs and Ajlafs.[7] Ashrafs claim a superior status derived from their foreign ancestry[5][8]. The non-Ashrafs are assumed to be converts from Hinduism, and are therefore drawn from the indigenous population. They, in turn, are divided into a number of occupational castes.”

    The Arabic Muslims in general consider themselves superior to others. There are also many different sects in Islam (outside India) and each one considers itself as legitimate and superior to the other, some sects more than others. So, Islam as an egalitarian religion is probably true in theory but not so in practice.

    But we’re getting OT here. 🙂

  16. Amit: That is my favourite example. I think it is a cracking book! I like his assessment of the curious brand of secularism India has adopted.

    I read Ed Luce’s book in my flight from Bangalore to London last year in November. I am always fascinated by and curious to see how others view Indians.

    You are also right about Arabs and non-Arabs. I remember stopping midway in my meal when my Pakistani friend’s Uncle (mama), who has worked in the Middle East and is now married to a Portuguese Catholic lady and lives in London, told me that he would rather sup with a Hindu than an Arab! Considering I was licking my fingers after eating biryani in his house… 🙂 small mercies, eh!

  17. lacking in caste-based profiling, and attracted lower castes

    not essentially
    islam has its subcastes too so has other religions

    yes ur true about the govt
    but hey if there is a big votebank that votes depending upon the caste and religion why will they not take advantage ?

  18. Preference for lighter skin color in females [in conjunction with natural selection] has been posited as an explanation for sexual dimorphism in and the distribution of skin color around the world. The literature on this seems to be extensive, mostly inaccessible to me. A very short summary may be found here.

    Why this preference for lighter skin? I have only scratched the surface on this, but it may have something to do with the male preference for neotenic characteristics in the female in general, as it signals docility and submissiveness. More on this subject and links to research, see Girls Interrupted.

    I have no clue about why the “western babes” go for tanning, but then I have no clue why both “eastern and western babes” spend fortunes on cosmetics either. I personally prefer them au naturale 😉

    For the less erudite reader here (I, among them), here is what The Rational Fool meant when he said ‘neotenic’:
    neoteny |nēˈätn-ē|
    noun Zoology
    the retention of juvenile features in the adult animal. Also called pedomorphosis .
    • the sexual maturity of an animal while it is still in a mainly larval state, as in the axolotl. Also called pedogenesis .

  19. Amit and Prax have added an interesting angle to this discussion.
    I have always believed that Hinduism is much maligned for its caste system, more than it deserves. I have Muslims friends and I have pointed out to them about the various hierarchies in their religion too…all healthy discussions mind you. Even where christianity concerned there are hierarchies.
    And all organized religions relegate women to a lower status.
    Guess thats why I rejected religion at an early age.

    Nita,
    All collectivist systems need minority and weak groups to exploit. Women are were the most obvious.
    Today, some women themselves have determined to become oppressors, with feminist/feminazi demands for State affirmative actions are one such example.

  20. We never write our gotra (clan) anywhere in official records, but it is still extremely important in Indian society. Just deleting info about caste in official records will not achieve much.

    Universal brotherhood is a common theme of many Indian movements too. Vivekananda and Ramakrishna Mission, Arya Samaj, and many many more have returned to the Vedas to explain that Varna (as opposed to Jati) is not based on birth. It is based on your guna (nature), and is hence a rational system.

    I am not an expert on this, but I thought varna was an occupation-based stratification system.
    To say it is rational is too absurd in today’s age, I think. It may have had its role in ancient India, but today? Come on!

  21. Guna (nature) leads to occupation. Only the brave can fight, wise can teach, wordly can do business etc. If today we don’t have an occupation based stratification, what is it that we live in? Your identity itself proclaims your profession, doc 🙂

    Varna is a division of labour for maximum productivity in the society. Today, we are all against “jati”, the one in which “guna” is ascribed to birth.

    Myth stories (thanks to Amar Chitra Katha): Vishwamitra was originally a King who then became a Sage because he changed himself. Valmiki was a Sudra, he later became a Brahmin too.

    In any case, my point was just that thinkers in India have propounded universal brotherhood 🙂

  22. Doc, this wiki article on history of Indian caste system seems to suggest that the caste system was quite flexible, and became rigid later on. Also both sides of the debate can find passages in religious texts and interpret them to support their view.
    You can cite the current situation vis-a-vis caste politics and injustices (and I agree with you that these are social ills) to throw out entire Hinduism, and I can cite reformers like Shankaracharya to show that Hinduism is flexible and has allowed social change, while also acknowledging its shortcomings. 🙂
    I think you’ll be hard pressed to find any human endeavor in our history that is 100% perfect.

    Amit,
    I don’t need to use this example to throw out the entire Hindu religion. I have philosophical reasons to refute any and every religion.
    Hence the issue of reform is immaterial to me, though I appreciate that it makes it better for others in today’s world.

  23. Aussies are playing a dirty and dangerous game. We are fools to have fallen for it. Their patronizing comments aimed not just at the Indian team but the country in general were meant to show the Indians their place in the order of things. These comments were racist and were meant to provoke a ugly reaction from gullible Indians. And yea,India is racist in some ways.

    Harsha,
    Aussie sledging is, according to Sunny Gavaskar, not a tradition, but has evolved in the last twenty years. I, too, think, that sport should be without this crap. However, their culture and mindset seems to be that it is a game of skills and nerves as well. But why do you say their comments were racist?

  24. I don’t need to use this example to throw out the entire Hindu religion. I have philosophical reasons to refute any and every religion.
    That’s fine, but it wasn’t evident from, nor stated in your original post, which was critical of the caste system in Hindu religion and linking it to the racist remark at the stadium. 🙂

    True.

  25. As if we did not have enough argument re the caste system, here is some more. This time, economists arguing whether the caste system is efficient or not:

    http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/10/was-the-indian-.html

    Interesting, Shefaly. There were some points I wanted to put in, but with a long commercial break in the meanwhile, I forgot what I wanted to say!

  26. For a permanent solution, I can’t think of a better answer than Ayn Rand’s espousal of rational individualism, and the abandonment of collectivism.

    Really?

  27. The idea of race has a history in European thinking. It relates to specific biological features like skin, hair colour and facial features. In many Europeans, even before the Nazis, there were laws against Jews, Roma (Gypsies, who incidently are of Indian origin, at least partly) and other groups who did not fit into to the ethnic norm of the nation state. The disrimination these people were subjected was justified by junk science. To a large extent such discrimination of people who are considered less worthy continues to this day in many “civilized” countries in W. Europe like Sweden, Norway, Denmark and also the UK.

    The caste system is indeed discriminatory; it is inhuman, but India has laws against it. To compare caste with race discrimination in an Apartheid state is ignorant. That is not to deny the numerous crimes committed against people of “lower castes”. They occur mostly in the most backward parts of the country, and they are a indeed disgrace to the nation.

    You point out that in India you have to fill in caste and religion on forms. There are two reasons for that: India practises reverse discrimination, otherwise known as “reservation”. The other reason for collecting information about caste and religion is to maintain statistics.

    I do not know if you have lived in India, but I have. Caste does not apply to me, so I always left the space blank. I often did that with “Religion”, but on one occasion, at St Xavier’s College, Bombay, I was asked to fill it in – they needed to know for their records.

    By the way, I have filled in more detailed forms about my origin in the UK, when applying for jobs there. None of it was mandatory, though. The British also keep records on the different ethnic/national groups in their country.

  28. Nishal,
    Thanks for the comment.
    You might call a comparison between casteism and apartheid ignorant, but this in fact is a very valid comparison. Collectivism, whether for the majority or for the minority, is evil. Period. The same holds true for ‘discrimination’ and ‘reverse discrimination’.

  29. Are you talking out of your ass, Rambodc? Accusing all Indians of racism -you must either be a Pakistani ISI agent or someone writing this bullshit in his masturbatory fantast.

    I agree there is a casteism problem in India but don’t compare it with “colour” racism that exists in the West. Yes, many Indian men including me have preference for a fair-skinned woman but that doesn’t really mean dark-skinned women don’t find eligible match. Which Indian restaurant, shop, nightclub would deny a person entry based on their skin colour? Name just one, you asshole.

    Racism and ethnic profiling are serious issues that exist only in Western White countries. Get a grip on it. As for India’s casteism problem, I don’t think it exists in any of India’s major cities. Most people don’t give two shits anymore about your caste. In my college, we had 33% students who belonged to SC and ST communities – it never even occurred to us. They were in OUR group and never we discussed caste.

    One advice, go and get fucked. You’ve been virgin too long.

  30. Pingback: More random thoughts « La Vie Quotidienne

  31. Sahil:
    Thanks for your most interesting perspective.
    For somebody whose email moniker is sabsebadachodu, it is no small achievement to have written this very coherent comment.

  32. Vivek Khadpekar

    Hi all:

    Sorry to be late for the party. I came to know of it through the two most recent comments posted by Sahil and Doc yesterday and today.

    Doc:

    //Every official form profiles a citizen’s caste or religion.//

    I think the caste entry is meant to be filled in only by those who are claiming reservations, and they are expected to back it up with the appropriate SC/ST certificates. It is because this is not clarified in the form that a lot of people put in their castes.

    Regarding religion, I don’t know why this is asked, but I just write “not relevant” or simply “none”. The only exception I make is once in ten years, when the Registrar General of India asks me that question in the census form.

    A small victory I scored was in the government-funded NGO where I worked for the last 21 years before becoming self-employed. I successfully persuaded the people in Administration to clearly mention in application forms (for employment) that the caste entry was to be filled only by those claiming reserved quota seats; and that mentioning religion was optional (actually I wanted them to remove it altogether, but their argument was that it was primarily meant for Muslims,”who are allowed four wives”, to avoid hassles about who should get the terminal benefits in the event of the employee’s demise while in service!). I was not entirely satisfied, but better a token victory than none at all 🙂 .

  33. Maybe we have this urge to constantly group ourselves as higher and lower. Its not only there with the castes, but it is there with everything else. Education, Wealth, Job and what not. There are two ways people commonly follow to become better – One to become better than their immediately better group, which was the original intention of the caste system (in my analysis only) and second to pull down the group below yours so that they would never get near yours (This became more popular, somewhere down the line). Maybe it is more because of the way of thinking and acting and the general mentality of our people more than the system (Caste, in this case).

    Destination Infinity.

  34. doc, just loved your repartee to Sahil…hilarious 🙂

  35. MM,
    Thanks, and welcome!

  36. Nice perspective, Rambodoc. We need to abolish caste system by denying it is there officially, and eventually it will fade a bit. Everytime a person has to mention his caste on forms, the existence of the demarcation or a class is reinforced.
    Like if today onward, to get the gas cylinder, suppose, I have to give my subscriber no. as well as the place I live in (xx nagar), then automatically, I will soon start thinking in terms of xxnagar people and yynagar people.
    We really have too many classification systems and any human’s natural tendency is to warm up to the ‘us’ and be wary of the ‘them’. We need to reduce the attributes that we use to segregate.

  37. You guys are absolutely right- Indians love white supremacy and racism. You see it in every aspect of Indian culture in India and abroad. You could even start with our beloved caste system (sarcasm). Indians live for white supremacy and forever will drool and fall at the feet of whites. Hell it’s even in their religion- aka caste system, and worshiping the whiter skin or so called upper class. The love and take pride in being slaves- take for example outsourcing. Talk to any Indian and they will love it and not get through their thick skull that it is modern day slavery. I am Indian myself and have grown up with this BS ideology all around me, but have stayed immune to this self hatred and racism. While it’s a sad day in India moving backwards in time to colonialism, meanwhile the US has progressed forward, and elected its first black President. Stay in the dark ages and rot in hell if that’s what you Indians (the racist ones) want.

  38. ndians are the closed minded people, they think that they know everything and the rest of
    the world is wrong. They considered themselves as smartest people on the planet. I
    Created topic called ” Is singapore a good place to migrate?” in the forum called
    http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.php?act=portal whenever i said the negative side of
    singapore they appauded it but when I say positive side of singapore The forum administrators
    are not happy they pushed my topic from “General Topics” To “Trash Can”.

    They Consider the chinese are racist but in reality they are the worst racist of all.

  39. “Pardon me for reposting the message below, coz the first message is not in the proper format”

    Indians are the closed minded people, they think that they know everything and the rest of
    the world is wrong. They considered themselves as smartest people on the planet. I Created topic called ” Is singapore a good place to migrate?” in the forum called http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.php?act=portal whenever i said the negative side of singapore they appauded it but when I say positive side of singapore The forum administrators are not happy they pushed my topic from “General Topics” To “Trash Can”.

    They Consider the chinese are racist but in reality they are the worst racist of all.

  40. To add to ur list, there’s subversive casteism in the field of Edu even now, no matter what people say: Eklavyas are still a reality; if its an International School for the noveau riche, u wdn’t find any that is 1) poor but bright and meritorious/deserving,
    2) not with the right parent ‘profile’.
    Except in convents, classroom is not a pleasant ‘levelling’ ground for children, there are subtle ways of demarcating, “Arey, he wd be like that, he is a ….caste/religion, don’t bother” is commonplace.

  41. Above, I meant reservations about caste in a diff way, as against the “quota” system. There is subversive casteism which no one really wants to break. Eng medium and non-Eng medium schools too are a way to reinforce tht divisive tendency, bec they dont teach the same way, or even the same content, or treat the children the same way in these schools.

    “Indian men are well known to prefer to wed fair virgin brides”..”profiles a citizen’s caste or religion”
    U r right! Lately, some1 in the family advtsd to find a match for a forty yr old woman- highly qualified men of the same age bracket responding, had asked (every one of them) 1) So….did the woman have sex ever? Is she still….? (no attempt at euphemism “did u have an affair bef?” Very straight fwd, very matter-o-fact straight faced question) 2) what caste is she? (She had no choice but to reject all of ’em)

  42. Pakistan Zindabad “may this heaven always stay infront of our eyes”
    Pakistani girls mobile number

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